They certainly scale the fence my wife put around the garden. Then again, we haven’t done a good job of patching holes in the perimeter. Our DevOps team is too busy playing in the sprinkler to learn to read, let alone automate patching, but it’s on the board for next sprint.
Why Spain: Expat communities, cost of living, friendly visa options, beautiful climate.
Why leave: Sick of U.S. politics and the way it directly and indirectly affects us and how difficult it is to escape from it - it’s a major point of conversations with family and friends, it’s on the local radio, local subreddit, local social media pages, etc.
Also, I have over $7k in personal medical costs annually (out of pocket). That’s just me, not my family cumulatively. For Ostomy supplies, iron infusions, and more.
a person who temporarily or permanently lives and works in a country other than their native country.
I mean, some Mexicans and other latin americans go to the US to make money and buy a home back in their countries. And still by they're not called expats?
I guess I think of "expat" as a possibly-temporary state where full assimilation is not the goal. American expats also pay American taxes unless they give up US citizenship.
> American expats also pay American taxes unless they give up US citizenship.
Practically, they barely pay anything significant.
The lower net salary in Europe / Asia associated with rather high local tax means that most Americans citizens oversea barely own anything significant back to the state.
However it does remain an annoyance to fill the tax declaration every year: I know several American who chose to give up their citizenahip just to avoid this specific issue.
I'm not sure I follow. I am a US citizen and have never lived abroad, but my understanding is that US Citizens living abroad must still pay the US a full federal income tax. It's graduated/progressive, of course, so the actual percentage may vary, but it should probably be between 15% and 40% of income. Not what I would call small. I don't think they can deduct local taxes, can they?
Many countries have tax treaties with the US, and there’s also the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE), which excludes up to 132.9k of foreign income; so many US citizens abroad will indeed pay no US income taxes.
That is mostly only true if you have no significant investments. If you have investments, the tax situation is not good as an American even under tax treaties.
If you are normal wage slave with limited savings then yes the exclusions mostly work.
The 2026 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) allows qualifying U.S. expats to exclude up to $132,900 of foreign-earned income from their U.S. federal income taxes. Married couples can exclude up to $265,800 if both spouses work abroad and each meets the eligibility requirements.
Most American ex-pats don't really understand that the thing that makes ex-pat life so attractive is that, for most of people's lives, being American in a foreign country has traditionally conferred a wide range of benefits (this is most clearly exemplified by the way Americans living in a foreign country refer to themselves as "ex-pats" not "immigrants"). The ex-pat solution assumes American exceptionalism as its foundation.
Historically Americans have benefited from income asymmetry and a fairly wide-spread desire by foreign nations not to cause too much legal trouble for US nationals abroad.
I have quite a few friends that do live, quite happily, abroad. But the common pattern for them is a.) fluency in the native language b.) historical association with the country c.) fairly large cash reserves so they can ignore any economic problems these countries are facing.
That sounds more like FIRE / geographic arbitrage than expat in the traditional sense.
What people often mean by a "true expat" is something completely different: someone sent abroad by their employer, usually with a generous expatriate package (home-country salary, local allowances, housing, private schooling for children, etc.)
More broadly, though, expatriate simply means someone living outside their native country. Ex means "out of", and patria means "native country" or "homeland". It's that simple.
So the word itself isn't limited to wealthy retirees or corporate transfers. All immigrants are expatriates, although not every expatriate is necessarily an immigrant.
Most places have their own politics. What differs is how often they come up. As a foreigner you're usually spared the involvement in those discussions because people think you're not interested and don't want your outsider opinion anyway.
People also embed themselves in different communities when they move anywhere, even to a different city or state in the same country. It's a clean reset.
It doesn't always last forever. I know several people who tried to move somewhere, including internationally, when politics got heated in 2016. Most of them came back eventually with a realization that politics is everywhere, it's just a matter of how much you're embedded into the places it's discussed.
Politics is everywhere, but the state of US politics today is exceptionally bad by Western world standards. I hate the government in my country, but their corruption and incompetence is nothing compared to the Trump administration.
In that sense most EU countries are a positive upgrade.
I (American) worked in Spain (Cáceres, Extremadura) ~2015-2017 in tech. It was a wonderful experience. Extremely talented, hard-working, and friendly co-workers. Great health-care and education systems. I think since then rising housing prices partially due to migration have become an issue, but it's a really, really nice place.
To add context Extremadura is a member of the "poor" Spain. To US people could be useful to think on a sort of New Mexico.
Pros: Great food, interesting cultural past, only one language to deal with and not complicated accents to grasp (more important that most people think), gorgeous wild areas, uncomplicated people, maybe a little on the introverted side at first, but solid gold after a while.
Cons: Risk of poverty sadly high, bigger than many US states (but with better government support and healthcare). Harsh continental climate very hot and very cold. Not for everybody (but US has plenty of places with similar or worse weather). The trains and communication roads are also under-average for the country and many people don't really speak English.
In many of the non highly touristic places you can live well if you can adapt to the cons. Housing prices are lower, life expenses cheaper and buying a house should be affordable with a decent job (Don't try this in Barcelona or Madrid). Portugal is close, and is even cheaper, to the point of some people living there and working in Spain. To support the same standard of living in Barcelona, Valencia or Madrid you need to plan in advance, to stomach the stress that unavoidably come with big cities, and earn much more.
In Spain if you can speak English well you will be automatically seen as a great researcher.
More pro: Spain may be one of the best places in Europe to raise kids (culturally, especially), though a good chunk of the country has emptied out of its young people - so it can vary by region. It's a shame that their birth rate has gotten so low. Crime overall is very low, especially if you're not tied directly to it.
More cons: You will eventually have to shift to a very different customer service climate and hours. The development levels can vary quite a bit, especially "modern" infrastructure like internet outside of the major cities (maybe that's gotten better in the last 5 years). Bureaucracy of some institutions (government/finance) can be extremely frustrating.
Regarding internet infrastructure, the fiber optic network seems to be quite robust these days. There are still places where it isn't available, but compared to e.g. the US it's another world entirely. Even small cities typically offer 1 or sometimes 10 Gbps hookups in many areas.
Regarding bureaucracy I'm afraid that there has been no such progress. Extremely frustrating that even when I do everything right, I get told to come back another day for my trámite because they just...haven't done it! Sorry!
Also American, and I'm interested why you praise the education system. I have a child who will be entering the Andalusian system at some point and although it seems better than my Oklahoman system, that is, uh...damning with faint praise.
Some of my non-Spanish European colleagues also have commented that the education system is kind of "good not great" especially compared with other Western/Central European countries. However, I understand the Spanish system to be somewhat federated; perhaps the difference between Extremadura and Andalusia would explain the difference in opinion.
gotta be ready for the crazy heat in the summers, they don't call it extremadura for nothing. unironically best lodging is rooms that were dungeons in the castle.
Man Spain is mentioned as a top destination with expat influencers, youtubers and now even on hn. I get the feeling that something is going to crack at some point. You must be pricing out locals and they can't be happy about that.
Spain is a pretty big country in terms of space. It's been full of British expats for years a lot of whom had to leave due to Brexit so can probably stand to have a few more influencers move over.
The point is that people in the US absolutely do get called racist all the time for all manner of things.
The question was asked if some US person might be called racist for having an opinion about gentrification that seemingly has little to do with race, and the answer is yes, yes they have been.
That said, there can be some "Oh yeah - well if you're insinuating that white people are displacing black people then YOU are the racist" which is just... not the same thing. One view of the world may incorporate a significant accommodation and acknowledgement of historical discrimination, enslavement, red-lining, you name it. The other is... technically correct I suppose, but complete horseshit on the merits until we start to see significant, systemic harm going the other direction as a result of race.
Spain has its own load of problems, like any other place. Big cities have lowered their quality of life a lot since the 2008 crisis.
Science is massively underfunded respect to what US was enjoying. Expect cuts in your salary. Physicians earn much, much, less, but students can follow public university studies without being put a crushing debt load around their necks.
Science is also being invaded lately with political and bureaucratic BS. Universities have less resources and are always scammed in the ranks that benefit Asian and US universities.
We expect one month of Holidays each year, by law, or to be compensated for it if we agree to spend this time working. Most researchers volunteer to work extra hours or weekends if needed to finish the experiments.
About cultural differences. There are not "white" people and "hispanic" people in Spain. Is either the same thing, or it does not really matter.
"Negro" means "black", and is just a color. Some people are racist, specially out of the big cities, and even more are classist, but if you are black and people describe you as a man negro or a woman negra they don't mean to insult you, they are just describing you. There is not such ridiculous term as an "Afro-spanish", if you have born in Spain or earned the nationality, you are as much 100% Spanish, as any other.
In fact, you are either Spanish, or foreign. If you learn the language well you "are honorary Spanish". If not, you will be always be the "Moroccan" or the "Gringo", but not the "black" or the "white". Europeans had mixed their bloods for ages and people here consider themselves as much "white" than you (if not more) and will find the distinction offensive by unnecessary.
As long as you act as a reasonably civilized person, only the extreme right idiots will care about your tan. Avoid this European MAGA like the dangerous plague that they are.
In restaurants, you need to call the waiter and say what you want. If you want the bill, you need to ask politely for the bill. Don't wait to be noticed or you will wait forever. You will not be chased off the table normally, that would be rude.
You will receive the amount of food expected traditionally in the area (not the humongous portions normal in US unless you visit the North).
Tips are fully voluntary. Unless you go to a very exclusive place you should tip between 0 and 2 dollars and don't need to argue why. (Forget about that X% of the service. We hate going out and being forced to do math).
People will benefit also of the environmental regulation. I assume that a big chunk of the morbid obesity epidemics in US came from unregulated contamination.
To end, a couple warnings, specific from the country:
In small populations near mountains and forests, wildfire crime is a recurrent problem. If there are cows or sheep roaming wild in the area, expect wildfire mafias. Assure to remove any flammable materials near your house and to have an escape route plan.
Dry riverbeds are dangerous. Engrave this in your brain. Locals use this places as parkings, but will run to remove the cars if there is rain expected. You shouldn't park in this areas, never, ever, try to cross a current of water or rescue your parked car if there is water, and should avoid buying any property in this areas. The place is called Rioseco for a motive. Each year a few expatriates die in the Mediterranean caught by flash floods.
Sure, you can find something with various budgets. As other said, that house is far away from the city centre (the reddit OP says so in the thread). You'll also probably need to spend a lot on upkeep and retrofits with buildings this old.
Just browse idealista in the city you want and you'll see its not such a bargain as people might think. Mid-sized cities I've checked (Vigo, Valencia, Granada) all have similar prices, around 400k for a 2-3 bed older apartment, or twice as much for a newer one.
Who cares if it is outside the city center? Looks like it is plenty urban. Even better, more real businesses priced towards locals paying 120k for an entire building, and no seasonal tourist businesses taking up space in the market priced for whoever can afford a four figure vacation to Valencia. Besides, OP said it was 20 mins by car to the city center. That seems perfectly reasonable in the american frame of reference towards distances to points of interest. The place looks turnkey too. Unfinished attic is pretty typical even in the US.
If it looks like a good deal to you, by all means, hasta luego. I was just saying that specific Reddit post is not really a good average case for housing. Check idealista and see the average homes there first.
> Why leave: Sick of U.S. politics and the way it directly and indirectly affects us and how difficult it is to escape from it - it’s a major point of conversations with family and friends, it’s on the local radio, local subreddit, local social media pages, etc.
I mean so you'll move to Spain and just be horrible ignorant of any issues facing the local population, living in a financial bubble where you've earned significantly move then the them and can ignore any political issues locally.
Sure it's "freeing" to just move and stop caring about "politics" and use money to smooth over or move again if anything slightly bothers you.
What are you talking about? They will move to Spain and be financially well off means they will be ignorant of local issues and live in a bubble? How did you make that stretch? Sure they may not be very political but that doesn't equate to living in a bubble. People choose to engage with politics at varying degrees, as is their right.
Isn't it enough to not having to look over your shoulder fearing you will be a statistic in the long list of atrocities being committed by this government? Having a good quality of life is something to be guilty about?!
People can't steal your card info via proximity to your wallet over NFC even without an RF blocking wallet. This is tinfoil hat security cargo culting, like putting tape over your webcam while leaving the laptop's microphone connected (audio from your room is much more useful than 2834823428 frames of your greasy face).
No but they can steal up to the pin-free amount of money your card allows. They can just hold a sumup to your pocket. Here in Europe most people use debit cards with non-reversible transactions and that limit is often 70-100€ which is quite a lot of money where I live. And they can steal a lot more if they follow you and shouldersurf your pincode.
I definitely use one of those wallets. They're quite convenient too.
I briefly skimmed this, but why are you wasting my time? What does this have to do with me earning free trips from being smart about how I buy things? does not compute.
Oh he made his point. He hates the fact that another human being would acknowledge the existence of trans people. The group mandating specific word choices is comprised of people absolutely livid that anyone has the right to choose any descriptive word they would like from “woman”, “cisgender”, “transgender”, “penis-haver”, “penisist” (my personal choice, as a cispenisist pianist myself), “menstruator”, “ballbreaker,” “cocksucker”, “vagiqueen”, “menstrually-leaning” to many, many more.
We have a slew of Englishian slop we can yeet to make communication more interesting and dynamic, if not hauntingly vulgar, and darn me to heck if I’m to be judged for engaging in a lil’ bit of fun while I got me this few decades to see how things play out with these daily consciousness experiences.
Get your hands off my words, I say.
Because one day in the not too distant future, that consciousness will run out the clock, and it’s game over, man! Game over!
Short term, nations with a high rate of white collar employment and fewer social services will suffer greatly.
Eventually, and likely in the lifetimes of most people living today, we would have to see something akin to universal basic income (UBI) that covers the necessities in order to stave off massive civil unrest.
If the white collar labor of human beings can’t compete with the output of AI, we either all become blue collar workers or we re-invent the concepts of work and play.
I’m not aware of any existing or proposed economy framework that adequately accounts for the automation that is nearly here at scale. We are not just automating away jobs - we are automating away the value that human beings have within a productive community. Before the mass starvation will come the mass suicide. Our culture teaches us that a feeling of self worth is derived from our perceived productivity. If we cannot feel successful, we may lose our wills to live.
On mobile, Meta absolutely doesn’t want you to use web. I created my Facebook account in 2004, deleted it in 2018 (Cambridge Analytica scandal), and later created a fake one just to use FB marketplace to sell things.
I will never install the Facebook app on my phone, so I use a browser instead. The experience is almost unusable. I can’t rate people. I’m not even sure if I can send messages. I can’t list things. The UI appears to support features that don’t work in practice.
No biggy because I just use a Firefox container and use my laptop instead, where the web version actually does work.
How you do you use fb marketplace without installing the messenger app?
I've tried that, but fb has stopped sending email notification of messages, so without the messenger app installed for notifications, I'll invariably fail to check messages on any kind of timely basis.
I thought about this playing Just Cause 2. So I go to this island, blow up all of their oil, gas, and power infrastructure, killing hordes of security guards who are just locals working the few jobs available to them.
As mundane and common as the information I’m about to share may be, it’s the reality of MacBook ownership for many - dare I say most?
I don’t buy new MacBooks. I get them refurbished from MicroCenter, Apple, or elsewhere.
In 2024, I picked up a 2021-released 14” M1 Max MacBook Pro w/ 2 TB and 64 GB for $1800 from Microcenter. Because Apple is so hostile to repairs, I have been paying for AppleCare+ and will continue for some time. But I don’t see myself truly needing to replace this machine for another 2-3 years. It’s my daily driver for BBedit, some IDEs, music apps, Firefox with dozens of tabs, Mail, Messages, iTerm2 with half a dozen tmux sessions.
True - my computing needs are not demanding. But for those of us who offload commuting to remote servers and mostly use thin clients, the computer is a joy to use.
I’ve been dabbling in Ableton Live Suite 12 Lite, which came with my Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 MKII midi keyboard, and this machine never breaks a sweat.
The M-series are seriously as close to BIFL as a consumer laptop can be.
Meanwhile, my wife’s daily driver is a 2013 13” MacBook Air w/ 128 GB SSD and 8 GB RAM. And an Intel i7 from that era. I won’t defend this though. She’s insane, and I don’t know how she lives with herself. I purchased it used from a Craigslist seller to be my daily driver 14 years ago, and it lasted until I upgraded to a 2020 M1 MacBook Air base model, which I later donated to a friend in need.
