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Nice write-up! The randomized SVD (Halko–Martinsson–Tropp) is a great practical fallback when you only need the top singular values/vectors.

more like they were facing pressure from chinese models, and dropped prices and now their margins are squeezed


Deepseek Flash is still much cheaper:

- lower input/output token pricing

- the cached token price is $0.0028/Million tokens, which is like 50-90% of tokens


DeepSeek Flash is a much worse model. Even DeepSeek Pro is much worse.


Oh how the turntables literally next day.


Slower/more verbose in my experience too. However, still self-hostable which is a major plus!


has claude escaped the lab???


I am not following a couple of things:

- you sell to websites an in-app agent

- why not just have them give you API spec, why reverse engineer their APIs?

A bit longer term, would you see yourself competing with WebMCP then? Because the website can just expose those APIs to any browser agent


Even with an API spec it wouldn't "just work". You'd still need to handle authentication and have a place to manage which APIs you want the in-app agent to have access to / when to call a given tool.

And believe it or not, even big companies with big eng teams don't have API specs available for their applications ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yeah the auth angle and unobtrusive integration path seems like the real neat thing here. From your customers eyes its just another user account right?

Is that a requirement to integrate it? your app has to essentially have "teams" or at least shared resources?


Yup just another user account. It can work without this as well (we support ingesting other resources such as help center articles, pdfs, etc.) but at that point it's no different from any other (dumb) AI chatbot out there that just spits out a bunch of itemized bullets.


why doesnt meta just use deepseek?

honestly better than gemini flash


There is a wave of users switching over to DeepSeek Flash. There are Reddit threads of users sharing billion token spend for $20.

If all of global spend on Anthropic/OpenAI/Gemini APIs just switches over to DeepSeek then easily we can decrease total AI spend by 10x


v4 flash was really, really good in practice for me. While on openrouter it's around 1/100th of what the "SOTA" models cost.

But billions? A bit exaggerated.


Plenty of screenshots in this thread showing usage.

Its the ridiculous cached input token price of $0.00028/1 M

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1twesxe/comment/o...


So basically forcing particular deepseek provider should make cache introduce another huge savings bump?

Count me in, I'll be testing that. Thank you!


DS is restricting the "expert" model usage already, because they do not have enough compute.


Probably won't be too long before the government decides to block deepseek's website based on "security" concerns.


Deepseek's models are open-weight and hosted all over the world, how would blocking deepseek's web sight do anything to stop its model's use?


Deepseek will be sanctioned and therefore no provider will offer it anymore. Only way to use it then will be private but even that will be forbidden if it gets classified as threat to national security.


>>Deepseek will be sanctioned and therefore no provider will offer it anymore.

That is possible inside the US. How do you do it all over the world? You have to convince every country in the world not use frontier models? Even worse how do you convince all the countries to not build their own models?


You are correct that it’s inside the US and it doesn’t apply to the whole world. But it will apply to the western world and much further which trades in dollar because else secondary sanctions apply. The shocking number is roughly 175-180 countries of 193 follow along US sanctions, that’s 90%. Unlike in the US the citizens of those countries will not be prosecuted for circumventing the sanctions but assets like bank accounts and wallets may be seized and Visa issues may arise. With the already ongoing legislation against foreign AI players and the recent national security threat assessment it strongly looks like just a matter of time until they implement the mechanics to sanction any disfavored AI. This will flush most users back to US companies. With the limited self hosting options and insanely strong export limits for datacenters it’s already established that countries can’t build their own models with the same power.


It’s in the doing with the DAAMT Act and soon foreign AI companies will be on the entity list. Circumvent this sanctions and count with assets forfeiture, civil penalty and criminal prosecution. This will eliminate access to Deepseek and so on overnight. Cherry on top most westerners will face similar problems due to secondary sanctions.


Who is "The government"?

China or your local one?


American


And then USA will have a disadvantage compared to rest of the world with cheaper LLMs and american AI companies will have tougher time surviving on domestic spend alone.


I am not sure if that is wise. It’s a hostile superpower after all


DeepSeek first and foremost is a business. Yes, being a business in China means risk of being ordered tomorrow to do something that is not in your best interests. But now we know the US is not immune to that level of government oversight either.

The difference is DeepSeek and other Chinese models are open weights.


By "hostile superpower" you mean USA?

As an European, today I certainly classify USA as a "hostile superpower" because the actions from the last few years of both the US government and of certain big US companies have stolen a lot of money directly from my own pocket, by artificially limiting competition in several important markets, like smartphones, SSDs and memory modules, thus greatly raising the prices in comparison with what they would have been in normal market conditions (i.e. if the US government had behaved after the same rules that they had forced upon the other countries for decades, by various methods of propaganda, bribing and blackmailing).


I'm in Europe. The only superpower that's been hostile to me, very directly - was US, when they asked a company I was relying on to limit model access based on nationality.

China has (so far), never done that to me.


Hostile? Us or them? I beg to differ who the hostile ones might be.


We are hostile to each other. It's ignorant or propagandistic to pretend it is only one sided. The concern is valid, if vague and unproven


USA is hostile to the entire world, because the US actions already for several years, but especially during the last year, have caused global price rises in more and more product categories, starting with smartphones, then with SSDs, then with DRAM and HDDs, and eventually with almost everything that is affected by energy costs.

This is not some hypothetical hostility, but billions of humans from all over the world have been losing more and more money in recent years and in recent months, from their own pockets, much of which eventually reaches US companies, like Qualcomm and Micron (or South-Korean companies, who have also benefited from the US policies).

Of course, China is not trustworthy, but until now, unless you are a neighbor like Taiwan, their hostility is only hypothetical and in the future, not real and in the present, like for USA.


China regularly conducts military, even live fire, exercises in the waters the South China Sea and surrounding waters, fishes and uses these water illegally, it helps Russia with its war against Ukraine, has provided assistance to Iran and continues to do so, has set up illegal policing units inside of other countries, conducts regular espionage, influence campaigns, propaganda, and infiltrates the political structures of other countries, and more. Unlike much (though not all) of what you blame the US for, these are all direct decisions by the state China rather than developments in its respective market by private actors.

China's hostility is not hypothetical. The US's hostility is not universal. I think my point about ignorance or propaganda is proven by your statement.


Which one? China or the US?


All AI is a hostile superpower. Might as well use the cheap one.


Well... Open weights on premise is politically neutral.


The training might be political. Search for "deepseek tibet backdoor"


Try doing it at scale for a whole office. Not trivial.


There are plenty of US based hosters racing to optimize and drive efficiencies

Literal race on twitter posting to increase token throughput and drive down costs on these Chinese open source models


You could probably do with couple of instances. People rarely use ai 24/7, so right now you can oversubscribe and still have acceptable latency and high utilization rate.


Pretty doubtful about computer use/screenshotting based approaches.

With Retriever AI, we construct custom accessibility trees to represent web pages and just switched over to using DeepSeek v4 Flash and its nearing 100x cost decrease.

We also had great success just reverse engineering the underlying APIs of websites and then writing code to hit them. This approach of using screenshots to take actions on a webpage to trigger the underlying network calls the website is making seems too naive.


What happens when you need to control something that isn't a web page?


Honestly with Fable I think anyone is going to be able to reverse engineer a desktop app and get the coding agent to automate it.

The Codex computer use functionality actually uses OS level accessibility trees, so thats also possible without screenshots.


I can't tell if you're saying that you think every native app in the world can be vibe-replaced with a web app (they can't) or if you're saying it will be easy to vibe-code a reverse-engineered replacement for every native app (you can't)


Reverse engineering APIs is just a recipe to get blocked sooner. Good luck!


its been working fine on LinkedIn/IG, the trick is to make the requests from the main world of the website itself.


Like I said. Good luck with it. You’re most likely violating ToS and it’s always a game of cat and mouse.


Fable has been gone almost a week. A god-tier coding model got banned with vague “national security” handwaving.

Trump administration friends get free passes on environmental laws, but anyone not pushing their narrative is getting curbstomped till they change their tune.

Come speak up against this regulatory retaliation and voice your support for Anthropic's Fable release.

We are meeting at a public plaza in front of their office to show support and discuss AI policy with free chai!


Who are your primary customers/usecases?

What do you think of just reverse engineering the network requests and writing scripts to hit the underlying APIs that the browser is making instead of tackling at the browser automation layer?


Hi Arjun, our customers use Intuned for a wide range of use cases, the main ones being: govtech and insurance tech. In addition, agencies that specialize in scraping for their customers.

Our Intuned agent and Web Task API always use reverse engineering when possible — the underlying agents have access to the network layer and can reverse engineer APIs when needed. At the end of the day, this comes down to what the user needs. We have seen cases where users need data from the network, and in these cases we skip the browser layer. In some other cases, we saw that users need to authenticate via the browser but then all the automation can be done via the network. We have also seen customers who want to get markdown of the pages in addition to hitting the APIs so a browser layer is a must.


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