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I assume the rumor is a counterexample? Where do I go to get wind of these rumors?

I've taught out of the first three of these. If I had to pick one for a first study, I'd vote for Strang -- and watch his videos while you go. Our second-semester mostly-math-majors linear algebra course uses Axler, which I think is nice for the purpose, but our students already have done a semester of computational stuff first. (Though the complete absence of any computations in the book means they don't always connect the material from the two courses very well.)


Is this really a big debate? I am in the similarly-named (but apparently distant) field of algebraic geometry and have never even heard of geometric algebra. Certainly I know about Clifford and exterior algebras, but this debate has never reached me.


In physics and especially computer graphics, yes. These are two fields that are culturally very different from algebraic geometry, in that mathematical techniques that appear at all "exotic" are "hard to sell", even if they're useful. Hence having to have a more marketable name for Clifford algebra ("geometric algebra" is just Clifford algebra), and having to have endless screaming from the rooftops for people to learn the slightest thing (like "multiplication is transform composition").


Still nowadays? My impression is that in (pure) math it's lost most of its market share in the last few years. But maybe that's only in my circles.


what do you or others use instead?


Probably the most general-purpose one is SageMath, which is open-source and basically Python with a ton of sophisticated math stuff built into it. Everything I used to do in Mathematica I now do in sage, and I don't think I'm the only one. Probably field-dependent though.

Of course there is a whole constellation of more specialized things in certain fields, that has come a long way in the last 15 years. So people needing things like that no longer kludge things together in Mathematica.


Does SageMath use Sympy, or is there some other integrator built in? Last I heard Sympy was one of the worst performers, even among other open source CASs.

https://www.12000.org/my_notes/CAS_integration_tests/reports...


It used Maxima many years ago.


Maple would be the main proprietary alternative but yes, there's also SageMath.


As others have said, very common. A famous example is Lyrica, which made an enormous amount of money for Northwestern, probably around $1 billion dollars. It played a not-insignificant role in the university's rise in the last 10-20 years.

Universities love this and encourage it. Any big place will have an office of "technology transfer" or similar to help researchers make this happen.


The best part for NU is they didn’t even have to pay for the research, it was publicly funded:

> Pregabalin was discovered largely on the basis of publicly funded research at Northwestern University

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34493615/


I only skimmed the article, but I think the idea is to use some variation on:

f(a,b,c,d,e) = the largest real solution x of the quintic equation x^5 + ax^4 + bx^3 + cx^2 + dx + e = 0

There's not a simple formula for this function (which is the basic point), but certainly it is a function: you feed it five real numbers as input, and it spits out one number as output. The proof that you can't generate this function using the single one given looks like some fairly routine Galois theory.

Whether this function is "considered elementary" depends on who you ask. Most people would not say this is elementary, but the author would like to redefine the term to include it, which would make the theorem not true anymore.

Why any of this would shake the foundations of computer engineering I do not know.


I've thought something like that, but I'm interested more in details of the argument.

As for why this could be important... we sometimes find new ways of solving old problems, when we formulate them in a different language. I remember how i was surprised to learn how representation of numbers as a tuple (ordered list of numbers), where each element is the remainder for mutually prime dividers - as many dividers as there are elements in the tuple - reduces the size of tables of division operation, and so the hardware which does the operation using thise tables may use significantly less memory. Here we might have some other interesting advantages.


But can you even express this function with the elementary operator symbols, exp, log, power and trig functions? It seems to me like no, you can't express "largest real solution" with those (and what's the intended result for complex inputs?)

At least eml can express the quintic itself, just like the above mentioned operators can


Author and EML are using different definitions of elementary functions, EML's definition being the school textbooks' one (polynomials, sin, exp, log, arcsin, arctan, closed under multiplication, division and composition). The author's definition I've never met before, it apparently includes some multi-valued functions, which are quite unusual.


Wikipedia says:

> More generally, in modern mathematics, elementary functions comprise the set of functions previously enumerated, all algebraic functions (not often encountered by beginners), and all functions obtained by roots of a polynomial whose coefficients are elementary. [...] This list of elementary functions was originally set forth by Joseph Liouville in 1833.

which seems to be what the blog post references.


I feel that saying that EML can't generate all the elementary functions because it can't express the solution of the quintic is like saying that NAND gates can't be the basis of modern computing because they can't be used to solve Turing's halting problem.


As is usual with these kinds of "structure theorems" (as they're often called), we need to precisely define what set of things we seek to express.

A function which solves a quintic is reasonably ordinary. We can readily compute it to arbitrary precision using any number of methods, just as we can do with square roots or cosines. Not just the quintic, but any polynomial with rational coefficients can be solved. But the solutions can't be expressed with a finite number of draws from a small repertoire of functions like {+, -, *, /}.

So the question is, does admitting a new function into our "repertoire" allow us to express new things? That's what a structure theorem might tell us.

The blog post is exploring this question: Does a repertoire of just the EML function, which has been shown by the original author to be able to express a great variety of functions (like + or cosine or ...) also allow us to express polynomial roots?


That’s a poor analogy because all polynomials can be solved to arbitrary precision with efficient algorithms.


Can anyone provide a link that "Some are going as far as to suggest that the entire foundations of computer engineering and machine learning should be re-built as a result of this", or anything similarly grandiose?

I am a professional mathematician, though nowhere near this kind of thing. The result seems amusing enough, but it doesn't really strike me as something that would be surprising. I confess that this thread is the first I've heard of it...


It's a fun, but unsurprising undergrad-level result. It got picked up and overhyped on HN [1] and /r/math [2] earlier this week.

Some of my favorites:

DoctorOetker: "I'm still reading this, but if this checks out, this is one of the most significant discoveries in years."

cryptonektor: "Given this amazing work, an efficient EML operator HW implementation could revolutionize a bunch of things."

zephen: "This is about continuous math, not ones and zeroes. Assuming peer review proves it out, this is outstanding."

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47746610

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1sk63n5/all_elementar...


:)

I still consider the article important, as it demonstrates techniques to conduct searches, and emphasizes the very early stage of the research (establishes non-uniqueness for example), openly wonders which other binary operators exist and which would have more desirable properties, etc.

Sometimes articles are important not for their immediate result, but for the tools and techniques developed to solve (often artificial or constrained) problems. The history of mathematics is filled with mathematicians studying at-the-time-rather-useless-constructions which centuries or millennia later become profound to human interaction. Think of the "value" of Euclid's greatest common divisor algorithm. What starts out as a curiosity with 0 immediate relevance for society, is now routinely used by everyone who enjoys the world wide web without their government or others MitM'ing a webpage.

If the result was the main claimed importance for the article, there would be more emphasis on it than on the methodology used to find and verify candidates, but the emphasis throughout the article is on the methodology.

It is far from obvious that the tricks used would have converged at all. Before this result, a lot of people would have been skeptical that it is even possible to do search candidates this way. While the gradual early-out tightening in verification could speed up the results, many might have argued that the approach to be used doesn't contain an assurance that the false positive rate wouldn't be excessively high (i.e. many would have said "verifying candidates does not ensure finding a solution, reality may turn out that 99.99999999999999999% of candidates turn out not to pass deeper inspection").

It is certainly noteworthy to publish these results as they establish the machinery for automated search of such operations.


This result itself is being described in those terms[1]:

> If this is true, then this blog post debunking EML is going to up-end all of mathematics for the next century.

This is very concerning for mathematics in general.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47775105


Why on earth would it upend all of mathematics? Secondly, even if it did that, why would that be concerning for mathematics?


Yes or no, it's too early to tell.


I didn't know most of this, but eagerly await my pre-order!


> Polynomial growth (t^n) never reaches infinity at finite time. You could wait until heat death and t^47 would still be finite. Polynomials are for people who think AGI is "decades away."

> Exponential growth reaches infinity at t=∞. Technically a singularity, but an infinitely patient one. Moore's Law was exponential. We are no longer on Moore's Law.

Huh? I don't get it. e^t would also still be finite at heat death.


exponential = mañana


What? I am living in one of these places right now. The rate of road deaths is vastly higher than even in the USA. This is not a good model.


Charlie Kirk was literally in the middle of talking about the need to accept "taking one for the team" when he "took one for the team".

Similar principle here.


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