We need to free up Bosch systems. They use lots of open source libs, but they close the whole chain (like spare batteries) so that you cannot plug external batteries from other suppliers.
Having been on the flip side of this divide in the past, there really are a lot of potential safety and reliability problems when using random third party versions of components. While I'm sure there are strong financial incentives to constrain supply, there are also some other strong reasons as well.
Also it's very expensive to actually make an ecosystem compared to a close one. The best way to incentivize manufacturers to do it is by creating a competing product that is open and having that differentiating feature drive sales away. That's generally the approach that works best.
That's kinda been the experience I've found in the open source diabetes space; several manufacturers have floated making things harder to hack, and we've found that actually showing them how many people use the reverse engineered API and would definitely go to their competitor is a really useful way of disincentivising that sort of anti-consumer behaviour.
When it comes to ebike batteries I think the alarmism is actually valid considering how often we see explosive fireballs on trains and in apartment buildings coming from cheap no brand ebike batteries.
High capacity batteries are incredibly dangerous devices kept safe only by very careful engineering and manufacturing.
> there really are a lot of potential safety and reliability problems when using random third party versions of components.
What are you talking about?
If a seller sells you random junk that causes safety issue, they are liable of the damage like the OEM would if their product was bad.
Then, if the seller is in a jurisdiction where you can't hope to sue, then it's either your problem for picking this random seller on their website, or we should make it Amazon's problem to feature this kind of sellers in the first place. Surely the biggest retailer on the planet could afford vetting businesses selling on its platform to protect consumers' safety.
In any case, the fact that Bosch's ecosystem is closed offers no additional protection whatsoever, as shady sellers already sell counterfeit components (that may or may not work at all).
> If a seller sells you random junk that causes safety issue, they are liable of the damage like the OEM would if their product was bad.
No, the GP comment is right. I’ve worked on products where a lot of users did mods and used third party accessories.
Customers don’t care who, how, or why their product broke. They want to make noise and try to get a warranty fix for it. Customers would try to mod their devices, break it in the process, and then spend weeks trying to drag us on social media until we relented and shipped them a new one for free.
They’re not going to be pursuing damages against the Aliexpress vendor who sold them a flawed battery pack, nor the Amazon seller called WOBALUBAFY that has already disappeared, nor the YouTuber who hastily showed them how to solder some things together.
They always try to hide the evidence and claim the product failed by itself because the big American company has the deep pockets and the ability to send them free stuff to avoid bad PR.
Right, I see what you mean, but that's merely “saving the company the hassle of bogus support requests” and still has nothing to do with the claimed “improves reliability and consumer safety”. This actually confirms my intuition that the safety argument is BS (as always with this argument).
And even from a “bogus support request” PoV I fail to see how opening up your product degrades things, as the risk of a user having an issue with third party components should be lower, not higher, if the said components don't have to hack around proprietary restrictions.
The closed system doesn’t (only) prevent counterfeit systems, it also prevents someone from maliciously releasing a mod that could make the motor accelerate instead of break at some random time.
It’d be negligent for anyone to release a product like this without locking down the FW.
Many years ago, we did exactly that: our product had FW update support and our biggest concern was a rogue hacker creating a package that would brick the product.
Pretty much anything hardware based is like this. Everything is 100% closed source and bolted down such that inspecting it is outright impossible without extensive reverse engineering.
I definitely think AI is going to change this. Astra is shockingly good at reverse engineering. I was working with a proprietary software library and I just asked it how some (poorly documented) function worked and it just went off and disassembled it without me even prompting. I asked it if there was a way of disabling some error checks and it went and found some undocumented functions (not in the header), disassembled them and figured out how to use them for me.
I didn't actually even give it the ability to run this code and it could still reverse engineer everything.
I've been surprised how much Astra prefers to go off script to "find the answer" than Sol was unprompted.
I've been doing some PCB design lately, and I was working up the firmware with Codex and asked about how to handle a specific part of my SPI setup. The firmware and KiCad hardware are in different folders/repos so none of it was in-context, but Astra just decided to `find` the folder nearby, then read the KiCad net lists by directly invoking the KiCad CLI on the .kicad_sch/.kicad_pcb files it found. Topped it off by reading the Espressif code vendored in my PlatformIO install to make sure everything would work.
For now, but I think eventually the hardware companies will catch on and build everything much more locked down with signed firmwares, keys burned in to the chip, encrypted communications with accessories, etc.
This is what’s done for phones, game consoles, and other devices where hackers have been ripping open in the past, but most other consumer devices haven’t utilised these modern security features yet.
Once we start seeing websites that can brick devices over webusb we might see more security.
I believe one of the feasibilities we have with electric locomotion is the standardization of components: electric motors, motor controllers, batteries and battery chargers. These being interchangeable will lead to lower costs through competition and more innovation.
It's disappointing that manufacturers are moving the other way to enable vendor lock-in. But only one manufacturer has to jump the fence and the others will be left behind.
I took a look into the batteries for the ebike systems, they have some sort of AES based pairing and the chips are read protected. You probably can dump the firmware from the update packages for the things. (maybe some hw exploitation stuff as well?) I did a thing where I put their battery controller on an after market battery with a divisor and it started and paired, but for some reason blew up afterwards.
I now realize it would be easier to write the whole thing wholesale, but.. uhh, it's no small feat, and I have a job soooo...
Bosch should open their shit, it might save them, because it seems the chinese with Avinox will eat their dinner in a couple of years. They seem to be pretty litigious, they went after a forum that documented initiatives to reverse (well, they also hosted pirated diagnostics sw but.. yeah)
The US agreement says it too. They make you agree to them collecting it. It says they listen to everything that's said in the vicinity and you agree to inform any guests to your house that they're being recorded at all times. But nobody reads that.
And if anyone didn’t watch GN’s video on it, it’s thousands of pages of text requiring a button press to scroll each. It’s designed for no one to read.
We should have laws that limit this kinda of “agreements”
They should flat out be banned for consumer electronics and goods.
It's insane that something you purchase can force a post purchase EULA before it can do anything.
Imagine buying a shirt but there's a 10 page EULA that says you agree to arbitration as soon as you break the seal. Or a blender, or an oven, or a refrigerator.
A lot of the "smart" electronics are in fact just that, they are sneaking in EULAs to use an app to connect to the device which robs you of your rights and protections as a consumer "Oh, the law says we have to give a 10 year warranty, but unfortunately you installed our app to work with your device which says you agree to forgo the warranty and pay us for the right to sue".
The GDPR does. Consent to data processing must be unambiguous, accessible, informed in plain language with no legal or technical jargon, and not have any preselected boxes.
The problem is the capacity to litigate is far surpassed by the world's speed and volume of doing bad.
This is a case where companies' actions should be treated like parking tickets: a fine is issued summarily, with option to appeal, not a slow process of litigation having to happen before a fine is issued.
Why would vibe coding be harmful? Nobody can know that. That's like saying compilers are harmful for kids in the 90s, they have to learn assembly or NOTHING.
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