I've lived and built two companies in Thailand over the last 14 years. Before your pop your Macbook Air in a backpack, read my points.
1. Bangkok is not cheap. If you want to have a life that resembles anything you're used to coming from a Western country, you're going to live in Bangkok and you're going to live in a relatively expensive part of the city.
Yes, you can live in a concrete block with plastic furniture and eat noodles on the street every day. You can probably get by for not much more than $1k doing so. When you can no longer stomach that, you'll find the city is quite expensive.
A decent apartment in a favorable part of town will cost you $1300 - $2000 per month. I don't mean a family-sized place, I mean a 1 bedroom with a "livable" amount of room and furniture that doesn't give you the willies.
Once you're sick of your local noodle vendor you'll find food prices quite high as well. My wife and I spend more on groceries than we did when we lived in SF (we shopped at the Safeway in the financial district). As for restaurants: We grabbed two meals outside yesterday. One was dim sum that came to about $30 for the two of us. The other was a tonkatsu place and the bill came to about $25. While that's probably cheaper than the US (for the same quality) that's hardly a meal for $1. We spend over $100 for a meal often. I don't know anyone (Thai or foreign) that would consider that overly expensive.
Wine and imported beer are expensive and the taxes are going up. American craft beer is going to go up to $10/bottle direct from the distributor. If you can stomach the local swill (think Budweiser without the quality control) knock yourself out.
When you're sick of taking taxis and the BTS/MRT, have fun buying a car at 50% - 300% above US prices.
2. Visas are not easy. If you really want to fake it here it means constantly traveling in and out of the country. The problem with that (beyond the fact that it usually means traveling to the least interesting parts of the surrounding countries) is that they limit it to a certain number of tourist visas for every six month period or something similar (I can't remember the actual rules, sorry).
The common way around this is to use a "visa service" which basically means you're paying someone to bribe someone to look the other way. It's not only illegal, the rules for it change seemingly month to month, based on whoever ends up in a position of power in what embassy.
To do it properly: a) register a business with the requisite capital and Thai shareholders, b) get the appropriate visa c) get a work permit. I've been through it. It's not cheap or easy.
To not do it properly means breaking the law in a country where you most likely don't speak the language. Have fun with that.
3. Sex isn't everywhere. My wife and I go out for drinks 1.5 times a month and I can't remember the last time I saw a prostitute. If you're going somewhere with a free flow of hookers then you're probably seeking that out. I see young people do this quite often -- the only difference between these young people and so-called "sexpats" is that young people often go "ironically". They're all equally as stupid.
4. The local talent pool is mixed. The entrepreneurs here are generally managers, not doers, so you're probably never going to find a technical co-founder. Programming/technical ability on the whole is quite low. Try browsing the website of any publicly traded Thai company and you'll see what I mean. It is possible to find good graphic designers, administrative types, etc. Salaries are low here so that could possibly be an advantage. Having said that, I know people who have built large tech companies (100+ employees) and the consensus is that the disadvantages here outweigh the advantages. Most people I know in tech here outsource to Eastern Europe or somewhere else.
Investors are hard to find and mostly unsophisticated in relation to tech. Tech-savvy ones do exist, but they generally buy companies outright and keep you on as a glorified project manager.
5. When you're ready to put down roots, you'll find doing things legally is an expensive pain in the ass and -- here's the kicker -- you'll have to give up 51% of your company to one or more Thai people. If it's not someone you've known for a decade then, well, good luck with that. Yes, there are ways around this but they require you to put your company in a legal gray area.
6. Inflation isn't rampant. Cost of living has gone up considerably on the scale of decades but it's pretty hard to notice in a few months.
Re: apartments, that's simply not true. A 1-br apartments in Bangkok is not $1300 - 2000 per month. You might be paying foreigner/expat prices and getting heavily scammed. I found a 1-br apartment 5 mins away from the BTS (public transport) for $300-$500. That's with a pool. And not uncommon. Same with the food, you might have been paying foreigner prices there too. I'd pay $7 for a table full of sushi for one person. And that would be a very very luxurious place. I' always check the prices before entering a restaurant, like any place in the world really. Many foreigners simply go to the non-local places in tourist traps and end up paying too much. Bangkok doesn't help as it's already expensive relative to the rest of the country. Just like any big metropolitan city really. That's why I wrote, stay out of Bangkok. Yet even then if you want, you can live cheaply in Bangkok too if you're smart about it. Thai do it on $500/m in Bangkok.
Re: western food, I think it's obvious that if you're looking for Western products, you're going to pay more than in the West. You're not in the West after all! It's a bit spoiled to expect Western food to be the same price as in your home country. However, if you can assimilate, live, eat and drink like a local, you can live very cheap.
That's why I stayed in Chiang Mai. It has low rent, low cost of living, abundant nature and countless of coffee places to work from.
Re: sex workers, I don't know if you're in my age group (I am 27) so YMMV, but if you go clubbing in Bangkok or Chiang Mai, you will run into prostitutes. Everywhere.
Thai grocery stores are more expensive than (or at least comparable) the states even for raw fruits and vegetables, or rice! And this is at bangkok supermarkets aimed at locals, not even the fancy ones. Americans just don't realize how food they have it.
The problem is that Thai taxes are high and there are price supports for farmers so their living standards can improve; they also aren't as mechanized than in the states.
i believe the reason why thai supermarkets are so expensive is because the erm.. "real" thais buy their stuff from the street wet markets, rather than air-conditioned supermarkets. places like Tops are meant for expats, tourists, rich locals, etc.
Exactly. I'd pay 20 baht (USD 0.60 or EUR 0.40) for 4 bananas from a street vendor or market. I'd pay 10x that in the super market. Super markets here are for the high society, tourists and expats. It's not going to be cheap if you don't assimilate and start living like a local.
I don't think the wet markets pay taxes or are subject to much gov interference. A lot of Thais buy groceries at Tescos, its not just a "foreigner" thing. You also can't buy everything in a farmer's market, and at any rate, you aren't quite sure what you are getting.
Living in china, we are more worried about safe food than cheap food, not sure if Thailand has similar problems. 便宜没好货，好货不便宜 as they say.
As an Asian who has spent considerable amount of time in Thailand due to having a girlfriend there, I agree with most of your points except the part where you claim apartments cost $1,300 - 2,000 for a "livable" space. I find that it is simply not true - low-end but still nice condos in non-touristy areas can be had for between THB 15,000- 25,000 which is well below USD 1,000. You must be referring to the luxurious Sukhumvit condos, where the prices are higher probably because of the location and the fact that those are touristy, expat-y areas. Get a place in areas like Ratchada and you'll find the prices significantly lower for equal levels of comfort and luxury.
Life in Thailand can be much cheaper than you describe. I'll give another data point:
We are a family of 3, EU citizens, living in Hua Hin (a resort town 200 km from Bangkok). The city is popular with upper class Thais who own a lot of holiday homes here and visit occasionally as well as with foreign families and pensioners. Plus, the king of Thailand lives here. So, no bustling sex industry or crazy night life here.
We spend around 2000 USD per month:
- 500 USD for 50 sqm, 1 bedroom apartment in a secure complex with olympic size swimming pool, fitness and community office.
- 400 USD for a very good international kindergarten, nursery level (3 yr. old)
- 100 USD for a driver who drives us to my son's kindergarten.
- 600 USD for groceries we buy in the supermarket. It would be cheaper to eat in local restaurants but we like to cook at home.
- 200 USD for education visas (1000 USD per person per year, kids don't need visas).
- 200 USD for travel health insurance (don't go without it), occasional vine, massage, public transport...
Of course, there is no upper limit of how much you can spend, if you want to. It is easy to find 1 MM USD+ homes and spend 100 USD for a meal. I guess young single people would find it boring here, but for us it is the perfect combination of quality family life, good working conditions without much distractions and healthy lifestyle.
I'm a little late to the discussion but I'd like to second your point (3)
I've spent the last half year on extended trips to Thailand (a few weeks at a time) and other countries in SE Asia to work on side projects and just decompress a little bit.
I've been staying in slightly more rural beachside communities. On Phuket that means anywhere besides Patong, and on Koh Samui that means anywhere besides Chaweng.
In the 2-3 months (accumulated) that I've spent in Thailand I think I've seen maybe one lady of the night. Like you said, if you're seeing a lot of it, it probably means you're seeking it out.
I spent 10 years living in Japan and I honestly think you'll be exposed to far more dodgy sex-industry stuff walking around Shibuya for 1 night, than a month in Thailand if you live a normal lifestyle.
Also want to make the point that Thailand != Bangkok. Same goes for other countries in SE Asia - if you're going to bootstrap just remember you don't necessarily have to swap your western city for an Asian city :) I quite enjoy hacking by the beach!
1. Bangkok is not cheap. If you want to have a life that resembles anything you're used to coming from a Western country, you're going to live in Bangkok and you're going to live in a relatively expensive part of the city.
Yes, you can live in a concrete block with plastic furniture and eat noodles on the street every day. You can probably get by for not much more than $1k doing so. When you can no longer stomach that, you'll find the city is quite expensive.
A decent apartment in a favorable part of town will cost you $1300 - $2000 per month. I don't mean a family-sized place, I mean a 1 bedroom with a "livable" amount of room and furniture that doesn't give you the willies.
Once you're sick of your local noodle vendor you'll find food prices quite high as well. My wife and I spend more on groceries than we did when we lived in SF (we shopped at the Safeway in the financial district). As for restaurants: We grabbed two meals outside yesterday. One was dim sum that came to about $30 for the two of us. The other was a tonkatsu place and the bill came to about $25. While that's probably cheaper than the US (for the same quality) that's hardly a meal for $1. We spend over $100 for a meal often. I don't know anyone (Thai or foreign) that would consider that overly expensive.
Wine and imported beer are expensive and the taxes are going up. American craft beer is going to go up to $10/bottle direct from the distributor. If you can stomach the local swill (think Budweiser without the quality control) knock yourself out.
When you're sick of taking taxis and the BTS/MRT, have fun buying a car at 50% - 300% above US prices.
2. Visas are not easy. If you really want to fake it here it means constantly traveling in and out of the country. The problem with that (beyond the fact that it usually means traveling to the least interesting parts of the surrounding countries) is that they limit it to a certain number of tourist visas for every six month period or something similar (I can't remember the actual rules, sorry).
The common way around this is to use a "visa service" which basically means you're paying someone to bribe someone to look the other way. It's not only illegal, the rules for it change seemingly month to month, based on whoever ends up in a position of power in what embassy.
To do it properly: a) register a business with the requisite capital and Thai shareholders, b) get the appropriate visa c) get a work permit. I've been through it. It's not cheap or easy.
To not do it properly means breaking the law in a country where you most likely don't speak the language. Have fun with that.
3. Sex isn't everywhere. My wife and I go out for drinks 1.5 times a month and I can't remember the last time I saw a prostitute. If you're going somewhere with a free flow of hookers then you're probably seeking that out. I see young people do this quite often -- the only difference between these young people and so-called "sexpats" is that young people often go "ironically". They're all equally as stupid.
4. The local talent pool is mixed. The entrepreneurs here are generally managers, not doers, so you're probably never going to find a technical co-founder. Programming/technical ability on the whole is quite low. Try browsing the website of any publicly traded Thai company and you'll see what I mean. It is possible to find good graphic designers, administrative types, etc. Salaries are low here so that could possibly be an advantage. Having said that, I know people who have built large tech companies (100+ employees) and the consensus is that the disadvantages here outweigh the advantages. Most people I know in tech here outsource to Eastern Europe or somewhere else.
Investors are hard to find and mostly unsophisticated in relation to tech. Tech-savvy ones do exist, but they generally buy companies outright and keep you on as a glorified project manager.
5. When you're ready to put down roots, you'll find doing things legally is an expensive pain in the ass and -- here's the kicker -- you'll have to give up 51% of your company to one or more Thai people. If it's not someone you've known for a decade then, well, good luck with that. Yes, there are ways around this but they require you to put your company in a legal gray area.
6. Inflation isn't rampant. Cost of living has gone up considerably on the scale of decades but it's pretty hard to notice in a few months.